Interview with Peter Marie Jenkins
SL Ziegler interviews Peter Marie Jenkins
Peter is nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns. We talk about activism, trans visibility, and our mutual desire to be Louisiana grandmas.
Interviewee: Peter Marie Jenkins
Interviewer: S.L. Ziegler
Transcriber: Dre Tarleton
February 20, 2021
S.L. ZIEGLER: This is S.L. Ziegler sitting down remotely with Peter Jenkins. Peter is nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns. Today is February 20, 2021, and we're meeting remotely using Zoom because the COVID-19 pandemic rages on. Peter, as we discussed before, this interview is part of the Louisiana Trans Oral History Project, the goal of which is to gather real world examples of what it means to be trans in Louisiana, here in the early 21st century, and to share these with our trans community and also to the world. And we do so by posting transcripts and interviews, in part or in whole, on the project's website, and through various social media accounts and other initiatives, including podcasts and zines. And you also have the opportunity, if you wish, to donate your interview to the T. Harry Williams Center for Oral History at LSU for long term preservation and access. Please know that you can stop this interview at any time, and if you have questions about this or anything else, you can reach out to me. Please also know that these interviews are a joint project between the two of us. You'll have a chance to review the transcript and any portions of them can be deidentified or restricted as you deem necessary. And I'll just ask for a verbal confirmation that you knew, in fact, what you were doing today and why.
PETER JENKINS: Sounds good. I love it.
ZIEGLER: Fantastic. Thank you, Peter. And with that out of the way, I wonder if we could just start at the beginning. Could you tell us where where you were born?
JENKINS: Yeah. So, I was actually born in Greensboro, North Carolina. And I'm assuming you want me to go through just a little bit about my history now?
ZIEGLER: If you wouldn't mind, that'd be great.
JENKINS: Absolutely. Just making sure. So yeah, like I said, I was born in Greensboro, NC. I spent a couple years in Georgia, spent a couple of years in Germany, ended up in Louisiana around, I think, the beginning of fourth grade. And I ended up staying there until a couple years after I finished my master's degree. And I am currently in South Central Virginia. Very rural and politically similar to Louisiana, like the Thibodaux region.
ZIEGLER: So, if you don't mind, I'll just ask what kept you moving? Germany, Georgia.
JENKINS: So, earlier on, I was raised by my aunt and uncle. And essentially, my uncle did key work as the lead safety manager in chemical plants. And so anytime anything ever went wrong, he was fired, even if it wasn't his fault, or whatever. I don't really know too many of the details. But safety officers, my understanding, was that they're essentially the one that takes the axe or falls on the sword, whatever. But he would always immediately have another job somewhere else. So, that was the thing that they did back in the day. I don't understand that. But yeah, that's how we ended up in Louisiana.
ZIEGLER: Okay. That's what brought you to Germany as well?
JENKINS: Yeah. Well, he was actually from Germany originally. And so, he'd actually came to the US working for that company, got married to my aunt, and then he got transferred back to their mother company or whatever, back in Germany. I didn't really pay too close attention. That's about the extent of my knowledge about why we kept moving, but I'm glad we ended up in Louisiana.
ZIEGLER: What part of Louisiana did you end up in?
JENKINS: So, in fourth grade, we ended up moving to Alexandria. I'm trying to remember the name of the schools. I went to Mabel Brasher elementary and Lincoln Sixth Grade Center, back in the day when we still had those. And then I ended up graduating from Bolton High School. That was a really great day, graduation, getting out of there. And then I ended up going down to Thibodaux because I was going to be a chef, and Nicholls had a culinary program. Did not graduate in the culinary program, but ended up getting my bachelor's in government there. I just sort of, since then, have kept myself moving.
ZIEGLER: Alexandria all the way through high school. Do you mind if we just ask about high school a little bit?
JENKINS: Sure, of course.
ZIEGLER: That tends to sometimes loom large in our lives, for better or worse. And I'm wondering about Alexandria. So, one of the reasons I really love this project that we're doing, this oral history project, is we just get to talk to people who have such great different experiences from different parts of the state. So, having not had a chance to talk to too many people from Alexandria. I wonder if you could just say a little bit about your high school and how you found it. But let me preface that by saying one of the things that I tend to ask is whether or not there was a significant queer presence in your high school. But I know that's often tied up with how you thought of yourself at that time. I just wonder if you'd be willing to just talk about that.
JENKINS: Absolutely. Honestly, Bolton was a public school, and it was in my zone, and so that's how I ended up there. As far as a queer presence, there were definitely a couple of gays, but they were sort of outcast. Honestly, when I got into the school, I think there was only one other out gay person in the school, and he was a bit creepy. So, I just sort of stayed away. Not like being gay was creepy, but just sort of a creepy individual. Sort of abusery, manipulative kind of deal. So, I tried to stay away from that, even in the early years. And then as far as my class, I graduated in 2007, but I came out in my freshman year. It's a debate. It's like a week difference, and I don't remember which week, but two of us ended up coming out in our freshman year, and I don't know which came out first. I don't know.
And so that was interesting. Because practically the first two years of my being in Bolton, our principal was an out lesbian. And she wasn't fired, she was forcibly transferred to a demoted role at the superintendent's office because parents didn't like her. And then we ended up with a principal who actively fought us trying to organize a GSA on campus, to the point where he also forcibly transferred out any teacher that would agree to be our sponsor for the club. So, that was really exciting. And that's just the start of it. But yeah.
ZIEGLER: And GSA, we mean the Gay Straight Alliance.
JENKINS: Yeah, we tried to start a Gay Straight Alliance. And so, 13-year-old me... Well, at this time, it was 15-year-old me when he came in, going up to the principal's office already with a binder full of the legal findings and court cases, saying, "You have to let us have a gay group." And him being like, "Sure. Sure, yeah." And when we had that discussion, he was like, "Well, the courts may have found that but I could just have you expelled for fighting and lie about it." And so that was sort of my first experience with organizing, and it pissed me off to the point that I'm still doing it 19 years later.
ZIEGLER: And so, you came out in freshman year. You're nonbinary now. What did you come out as, as a freshman?
JENKINS: At the time, I came out as gay. Honestly, I don't even think I heard the term transgender until I got into college at Nicholls. And even then, it was probably my sophomore year until I heard about just sort of like that concept. So yeah, it was a while.
ZIEGLER: Yeah, for sure. And I'd love to hear about, if you remember, the first time you heard about transgender or any other...
JENKINS: It was definitely in one of my courses. Because when I got to Nicholls in Thibodaux, they didn't have an active GSA on the campus. It had sort of faltered two years previously. And I was like, "Well, they wouldn't let me have one in high school, so I'm going to have one now, no matter what." And from my understanding, it's still going strong today, which is like, "Hello, fantastic. Love it." But really, we're just doing bake sales and being gay. But it was probably in one of my English Lit courses. It was the most gay friendly department on campus, as always. I can't really pinpoint a university department at the average university would be more gay friendly than an English Lit department. But that's just my experience. So, yeah.
ZIEGLER: I wonder, do you have any thoughts, again, thinking about the comparison of different parts of the state, of Alexandria and Thibodaux?
JENKINS: So, I always felt like Alexandria was small. The rural life isn't really what I yearn for. I want to be able to have a really nice garden, but I also want that garden to be in a yard at a house in the middle of a big city, which is never going to happen, because I'm never gonna be rich. And then I ended up moving to Thibodaux, and honestly, I didn't think about city size and rurality and urbanism and such. It was really just getting away from that abusive family situation that I was in.
And suddenly, I find myself in Thibodaux, which made Alexandria look like a big city. And so it was interesting, because over the four and a half, five years I was in Thibodaux, the local community was much smaller than Alexandria, much more conservative, at least in my experience. But at the same time, I lived on campus much of that time. And so, the campus life was much different than what you'd find within the rest of the community. It was still conservative. It was still not affirming, and all the things that go along with that, but it was a safer haven than what I had before, with my aunt and uncle.
ZIEGLER: Are you comfortable talking about the home life?
JENKINS: Sure. I think it's important to share those stories. It's probably something that I'm still not completely over. But I'm okay talking about that if you had any questions.
ZIEGLER: Oh, nothing specific. I was just curious as to how they took it when you came out. But again, let me preface this, and we talked about this before the tape started. But let me just say, again, only to the extent that you feel comfortable talking about and we gladly move on otherwise,
JENKINS: Well, I definitely am of the opinion that I use my voice a lot. And even when things are hard, that I try and still speak on them. And so, to be honest, it was really not a great homelife. I did come out at 13. And my uncle really wasn't super religious, and he sort of let my aunt take the reins on the religiosity of the house and, essentially, the morality, and she was very religious. She was raised Assemblies of God, and when we got down to Alexandria, honestly, it was a fight between going to Pentecostal churches or Southern Baptist churches. Which, not my thing.
But it was really interesting, because I think, growing up, at least as a child, like a really young child, we actually all got along well, and after I came out, it was suddenly a completely different perspective and experience. To the point that, it's something that I'm still trying to come to terms with myself, there used to be this boot camp run by the Alexandria Sheriff's Department. My aunt wanted to send me to this boot camp. They usually took, from my understanding, it was about 50 students at a time. It was a three month boot camp, and you had to apply to it. And typically, you'd have 250 people applying.
And you apply, you get sent to this independent committee of three or four people who interview you and your parents on is your situation appropriate enough for one of these 50 spots? And by the end of the interview with us, the committee gave a unanimous recommendation that, essentially, no way in hell should I be allowed into this program, because they could tell I was being sent there, because my aunt thought that it could change my sexual orientation.
However, lucky for me, the director of the program lived across the street and one door to the right from the house that I was living in, and he overruled the committee. And so, at least from my perspective, and this boot camp was on a jail property. For me, it's like I was sent to jail because I was queer. And so, for three months, I was living in this situation where there were literally people in there who'd thrown Molotov cocktails at people in cars, and that's why they were in this program. And I was here because my family didn't want me to be gay.
And so, that's three months of, when you can, you would be talking to each other, and they're like, "Why are you here?" And they'd be like, "I did this. I was starting fires." Or, "I was beating kids up at school." Or like, "I almost killed somebody." And I'm not going to tell 50 other young kids that I'm here because I'm gay. And so, I was always nervous that was going to come out, and that I would face violence from that. And I think, out of all the things that I experienced in that household, that's the one that I definitely haven't moved past. Don't know if I ever will. And also, I don't know if I ever really need to. I think in many ways we talk about forgiveness and all this stuff as the only way to move forward. But also, for me, there's some things that you can do that aren't forgivable, and that has to be okay, as well. And so it happened. And we'll see what happens next.
ZIEGLER: I appreciate you sharing that. I know that's not easy. I'm sort of curious. This is a question that we ask almost everybody, in part because of our location. Also, in part, because we're all trans, under the umbrella. Are you religious at all?
JENKINS: Wait, we're trans? [laughs]
ZIEGLER: It's like, "What? What's happening?" [laughs]
JENKINS: Obviously, I was raised in a very Christian environment. I rebelled against that for a long time, to the point, for a while, I was a super hardcore atheist and all Christians were the enemy, no matter what. It actually took a trans Christian to help me see that I was wrong on that, and I really appreciate them for that. But I would say that I'm more spiritual, which is very common amongst the queers, obviously. But religious, I wouldn't say that. I don't follow any specific belief system, I would say.
ZIEGLER: And so, you went to Thibodaux to study culinary arts?
JENKINS: Yes. Yeah.
ZIEGLER: That sounds amazing.
JENKINS: It was pretty cool. Obviously, Louisiana has such a rich history in general. And that translates directly to the food history of the state, and just the culture around food. Every single family in every single community ever, anywhere, knows that the dinner table is a place that you can bond, you can come together. You can make friends, and you can rebuild relationships. I think that is just increased tenfold in Louisiana. I don't know what it is about the state, but we have built this culture of food to such an interesting and wonderful level in this state.
And I was never really allowed to be in the kitchen or help cook before I left high school. And I was always interested. I always wanted to learn. I knew that one day I'd be out from under there. And I was like, "I don't know how to cook." So one day, I got this little recipe from... I don't remember which Food Network chef did it, but my aunt and uncle left and I tried it, and it turned out absolutely terrible. It was horrible. It was some little dessert, too. It only had to be cooked for like 10 minutes. It was terrible. But it was still fun.
And so, I had this really just strong feeling that I wanted to be a chef. I wanted that to be my career. I started the program. And over the course of being in that major for two years, I slowly learned that I really just wanted to know how to cook. I wanted to learn how to bring that community and that culture and that specific foodieness that we all know about Louisiana, to my own home. And I wanted to be able to provide that feeling to my friends and my chosen family.
And thankfully, I learned how to start making gumbo. I will not say that culinary program taught me how to make a good gumbo, but it taught me how to make a gumbo and I have improved it. To be fair, it was Chef that taught us how to make the gumbo, he used to have a restaurant, and it was either in Cut Off, LA, or near Cut Off. And someone who I was dating while I was an undergrad, I talked to his grandmother one time about that restaurant and she said, "Yeah, I went there one time. His gumbo was trash." And I was like, "Hm. Thank you."
Because I really didn't like this man. That chef, he was super sexist. He was super homophobic. He was anti-black and everything. And so, hearing just a really nice Cajun grandma say your gumbo sucks, it was heartwarming. It's carried me through to this day. Thankfully, I was in just long enough to learn how to cut up vegetables, learn the basics of cooking in the ways that my family had not and should have taught me. And here I am now, to being able to make a damn good combo for a 32 year old. So, I am well on my way to being Cajun grandma material, in about 10 to 15 years.
ZIEGLER: Well, this is a wonderful segue. Thinking of you as being a Cajun grandma is a wonderful segue into you leaving the state of Louisiana. So, after you finish in Thibodaux, you go to Virginia Commonwealth? Is that right?
JENKINS: Actually no. I ended up in Baton Rouge, about a year after I graduated Nicholls. I was either going to get a job in the government because I had a degree in government and didn't know what else to do. Or I was going to go get my Master's. I did not get a job, because nobody wanted to hire gays. And so I got my master's. So I got my MPA from LSU. And then, about a year and a half after that, I came up to Virginia to get my PhD at Virginia Commonwealth University. And then two years into that program, I dropped out. That was a whole experience, but yeah.
ZIEGLER: Okay, so you were still in Louisiana. What do you think about Baton Rouge? We'll just continue this theme of comparing locations.
JENKINS: Absolutely. I really enjoyed Baton Rouge. It was the biggest city I'd lived in at the time, which, you go to other states and call Baton Rouge a big city, and they're like, "Huh?" But for me, the LSU community was one of the most accepting communities that I had seen until that time, and that was really interesting. I got to meet some fantastic people. Looking back on it now, and even at the time, there were still massively conservative elements in the city, both on the LSU campus, especially experiencing them during the time that I was doing legislative work in any capacity. So, there were still battles to be fought, but as far as comparing them to Thibodaux and Alexandria, and having to live in the places as a queer person, if I had to choose out of those three, I'd pick Baton Rouge every day. So yeah, that's where I am.
ZIEGLER: And then, I was just looking at my notes. So, Baton Rouge. So, three major locations in Louisiana, then you go to Virginia? That's in Richmond? Oh, much bigger town?
JENKINS: Yes, yes. And I really enjoyed that time. It was the first time that I felt like people consistently looked at me as someone who was actually an expert in anything. And bestowed upon me any sort of authority over even my own story. And so that was wonderful. Id' say probably the thing I'm most proud of is, during my time there, two years in a row I led policy panels on, called The Future of Transgender and Nonbinary People. And we discussed various policy issues impacting the community, and we always had a ton of support. I mean, we always had it in the biggest room in the library, and it was always packed, which I was always flabbergasted by the fact that people actually wanted to come to an event that I organized. But it was wonderful, and I felt supported by so many people at the university, except for the people actually in my department. Sorry. Still getting over COVID here. So yeah.
ZIEGLER: So, you were saying that you came out as gay at 13. And by the time you were at Virginia Commonwealth, you're doing trans related work. Can you talk a little bit about that journey that got you to that?
JENKINS: Well, I'll say that I actually came out as trans while I was still at Nicholls. And just offhand, it was 2011. It was early to mid 2011, and that was actually the same year that I got elected to the Democratic State Central Committee. And so, when I was in that position, I was trying to do some trans political work within that structure as well. And I always thought being the first openly trans person elected to office would come with a lot more backlash, but it was really interesting in that people, in general, didn't seem to mind or really care one way or the other. So that was fantastic.
And then, of course, during my time at LSU, I definitely pushed for better policies. I ended up pushing both Nicholls and LSU to update the policies in regards to how a student is named and gendered on official policies, and the internal university system's Blackboard and all those programs, and they never went along with it. But I was always trying to push. And actually, when I got to VCU, I was able to actually do some of that work in a really good way because I was specifically there to do a PhD in public policy, with a focus on how to include trans people in our public policies. And so, when I went to the University and be like, "Hey, we need to work on this." They'd be like, "Hey, you're right." And so it was really fantastic, actually being able to advise and consult on how to improve those kinds of policies.
ZIEGLER: But ultimately, the Ph. D. program didn't work out.
JENKINS: Yeah. I mean, for multiple reasons, honestly. I guess I mean it was 50/50, really. The fact that I went there to do this very specific work, and then the faculty were no longer really supportive, coupled with the fact that academia is all about publishing, and it's all about being able to get grants. My passion was teaching. My passion was not publishing peer reviewed journal articles twice a year. And the fact is, there is no money in publishing about how public policies impact the trans community. And so a career in academia, for me, would have looked more like just being a constant adjunct, essentially making no money, and that's not what I wanted to do. And so, I left that program, I think for all the right reasons. And honestly, it's weird to hear it said like this, but I'm glad I did not say the course. Because my life would not be as good as it is right now, not saying it's perfect, had I stayed in that program. I think my life would be measurably worse at this time. So, it was definitely the right decision.
ZIEGLER: That's good to hear. And another wonderful segue because I did want to talk about your current work. So, you're still in Virginia right now, is that correct?
JENKINS: Yes.
ZIEGLER: Can you just tell us a little bit about the political organizing that you do now?
JENKINS: Yes. And so, after I left VCU, I honestly had no idea what I was going to do. I had, at this point, for two and a half, possibly three years, my entire everything was set on a career in academia, that I was going to be a college professor, I was going to be able to teach students about the public policy process. I was going to be able to mentor young queer students and really help them realize their dreams through an academic setting. And suddenly, I'm dropping out of that program and I have absolutely no idea what's in front of me.
So, I was in Richmond. I end up moving back to Danville for about four or five months, where my mother lived at the time. And then, one day, one of my friends posts this, "Hey, my job's hiring. We're doing door to door canvassing in Richmond for these candidates, and it pays this much an hour." It was, like, $12, $15 an hour. And I was like, "I'll do it. I don't know how, but I'm going to do it." So I ended up doing that job for two and a half months, and then it ended. But a month and a half after that position ended, the same company that I worked for, 360 Campaign Consulting, started doing this petition signature collecting job up in Oregon, where they were collecting signatures to decriminalize the use of psilocybin in therapeutic settings, and decriminalize all drugs.
I was like, "You know, I actually really believe in these programs." I'd been looking at the stats and following the implications of that policy in Portugal for years, because I think at this point, they did that over two decades ago. And I saw that, for me, we spend so much money in this country on criminalization and putting people behind bars for drugs, when also talking about how addiction is a disease. And for me, it's also really important to make this change because so many of the folks in our community are Black and Brown folks, and these criminalization systems impact them more than people like me, who are white.
And so, I saw this as a chance to help. And thankfully, we had massive support from the public up there. And it was really great that, on election day in November, both of those initiatives passed, and the voters put them in place. And for me, it's fantastic to be able to see that people are no longer being put in jail for simply possessing drugs, from that campaign. And from the previous campaign, one of the positive benefits was that, just one, was that we instituted an X gender option on state licenses here in Virginia. So, literally, I saw that benefiting me directly, like actually having a license that shows my correct gender, which I wouldn't have been able to get in Louisiana, now, or who knows when that'll happen, unless that's instituted on a federal level.
And so, after that campaign ended in May, I was unemployed for a while, and ended up doing some work in North Carolina for a few months to help flip the US Senate. The candidate I was working for lost, but we ended up getting it in just under the radar with that one. But I think the work that I'm doing now really does speak to my earlier life experience, being young, queer in rural Louisiana, and I definitely consider Alexandria rural, in that anytime you talk to queer people, especially trans folks, in Louisiana, the word resilience always comes out. We can't get away from it. I even think there's the annual student conference at LSU.
ZIEGLER: Yeah, the queer conference.
JENKINS: Yeah, queer conference. Yeah. I think one year it was, "Something, Something, Queer Resistance in the South." And I'm like, "Yes." But I may not be in Louisiana right now, but that's because sometimes resilience wasn't enough in Louisiana. I don't know how far off the question I'm getting right now.
ZIEGLER: No, it's great. No, you're good.
JENKINS: Resilience was critical to stay alive through high school, to get through undergrad, to just live in Louisiana as a trans person, but resilience doesn't pay the bills. Resilience doesn't keep me warm at night. It doesn't help me sleep well. It is a hard thing to have to live with 24/7, 365, year after year. And so, in many ways, leaving Louisiana was an act of loving myself enough to know that, despite my deep love for the state, that I had to leave. I had to leave to be able to not only take care of myself, but to take care of my community. And that is a big reason why I do the work that I do, because in many ways, I can take care of myself, but there are folks in our communities who can't even speak up for themselves just because of the position they're in. And I know that I can help. And so that is why I do this political work nowadays.
ZIEGLER: Yeah. This next question is going to be very ill formed, but I'm just sort of wondering, and I don't know if you've thought about this, so it's okay if there's no answer to this. But I wonder if you have any thoughts on what it would take for you to come back to Louisiana? Like whether or not that's a social shift, whether or not that's a political shift? Just curious, your thoughts about that?
JENKINS: It depends. Well, first of all, I think it depends on where in Louisiana. I feel like, to move back to Thibodaux or Alexandria, I don't think it's going to get there, at least not in my lifetime. But to move to a place like New Orleans, just to be honest, it would take a good job. I don't have a problem living in the more progressive parts of Louisiana, both sides of that street. I would be happy to live in a place like New Orleans, or, I think, even Baton Rouge under the right circumstances.
But for me, one of the biggest challenges I faced in Louisiana was finding employment that was appropriate for the skills that I have. We have, and by we, I mean Louisiana, has talked about our brain drain problem for years, that the best and brightest that we have, have to leave to get a job, and that doesn't stop at the trans community. We have some amazing and wonderful people in our community, and many of us leave. I mean, I could start listing names, but that would probably be inappropriate, and I'll let them speak for themselves.
But I'm not going to be out here saying I'm the smartest and I'm the best person ever for whatever job, but I should have been able to find a job that suited my talents within the state. And unfortunately, that wasn't happening. Like I told you before, it was about a year, year and a half after my undergrad where I couldn't find anything. I ended up working at Jimmy John's with a bachelor's degree. And even after my master's degree, I ended up working at Domino's, because I couldn't find a job, for someone willing to actually hire me for what I was worth. Plenty of minimum wage job offers, plenty of internship offers, because internships definitely don’t put food on the table, of course. And it wasn't appropriate.
And so, for my own livelihood, I had to leave the state to find successful employment. And I'm not going to name names, but we even look at the former leadership of statewide queer organizations, and many of those leaders have now also had to leave the state to find insert term gainful employment. But I would love to move back. I still have this idea that I'm going to retire somewhere near Thibodaux on a bayou in a two or three room shack, and live out my twilight days there. Because I do have a love affair with Louisiana. It's never going to go away. It is my problematic fav, and that's sort of where I am with that.
ZIEGLER: Normally, in closing, Peter, we ask a question that takes this following preface. So, once again, this project is about gathering voices and is optimistic at its very core because it assumes there'll be people in the future to listen and/or read these. And normally would I ask, and this is going to be a little different for you, because you're not here in Louisiana, but normally what I ask is for you to imagine a future listener, say, three decades out, it's like 30 years from now, and what would you like them to know about what it means to be trans in Louisiana, here in 2021? Or, and I mean, feel free to either answer that question about this year or thinking about the last time you were in Louisiana, and the experience that you were having at that time.
JENKINS: I mean, I understand the value of being optimistic. And I definitely think that some of the best people I've ever met were in Louisiana. There's a reason I say stuff like, "I have a love affair with Louisiana." And it's not just because it has pretty leaves and good food. It's because of the people. And I have a deep faith that we will see a future where things are brighter for our community. And that's also the reason why I still have these visions of me retiring on the shores of some bayou, somewhere in the middle of nowhere of Louisiana. Because I do believe that change, must, will, and deserves to come.
And I just hope that people in the future continue to build towards an even better future. I'm not going to tell them that they should look back on us and see all the battles we had to fight because at that point, these battles will have been fought and won at that point, and there'll be new battles to fight. And I think that is what it means to be trans in Louisiana, is that we're going to constantly be pushing to make sure that our community is heard and visible, and that, even in hard times where we're not, we're going to be there to support each other. And I think that is really what it means to be trans in Louisiana, is that we will create a community no matter what.
ZIEGLER: That's fantastic. Thank you so much for that, and Peter, thank you so much for taking the time to do this interview today and for being part of the project.
JENKINS: No, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. And I'm really glad to see that this is being done.