Episode Two - Interview with Dani Deanne | Music by Lola Jean Darling
This episode features our interview with Dani Deanne. This episode's featured song is 'Beautiful Heartbeats,' by Lola Jean Darling, an indigenous trans woman living in New Orleans. Hear more: https://lolajeandarling.bandcamp.com/album/dream-queen
Full Transcript
Ladies and gentlemen, and all of us who are neither and/or both, welcome to Trans Louisiane, the podcast of the Louisiana Trans Oral HIstory Project. My name is Sophia Ziegler.
This podcast features selections from the oral histories gathered by the Louisiana Trans Oral History Project, which aims to collect, share and preserve the voices of Louisiana’s trans and gender non-conforming communities. You can learn more about us at Louisiana Trans Oral History dot ORG, and by finding us on all your favorite social media platforms.
This podcast also aims to lift up members of our communities in other ways, including our song of the month selection, in which we feature trans musicians. So be sure to stick around till the end of the show to hear our song this month. It’s called 'Beautiful Heartbeats,' I really like it.
We also take time to thank all the people who make this possible. This month, I’m excited to thank Shannon and Jaime, who’s generous donations will help us continue to pay our musical guests.
Later I’ll tell you how you too can be a patron of the project and get a special shout out on next month’s episode.
But first, we’ll be hearing interview segments from my time talking to Dani Deanne in January 2021. By way of both introduction and context, Dani is a trans woman in Calcasieu Parish, which is a parish in the southwest of the state, which, as we’ll hear more about, was the site of two significant hurricane landfalls in 2020. Specifically, Hurricane Laura in August 2020 and Hurricane Delta in October 2020. It was a truly devastating time for everyone in the path of these storms.
A few other things, Dani mentions being born in New Iberia, which is a Parish Seat of Iberia Parish, and is about twenty miles from Lafayette, Louisiana (if that helps). And I should say, for our non-Louisiana listeners, when we say Parishes you can just think ‘counties’. I don’t know, I just live here.
Lastly I’ll say that this interview deals with heavy things. Though the word suicide is not mentioned, Dani’s struggles are. We’re all in different places, please take care of yourself.
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SL ZIEGLER: Okay, this meeting is being recorded everybody. Hello, this is S.L. Ziegler, sitting down remotely with Dani Deanne.
ZIEGLER: [00:00:14] Dani is a trans woman and uses she/her pronouns. Today is January 21, 2021. I'm so happy to say that. We're meeting remotely using Zoom because the COVID-19 pandemic is still, still very scary. So, Dani, as we discussed before, this interview is part of the Louisiana Trans Oral History Project. The goal is to gather real world examples of what it means to be trans in Louisiana, here in the early 21st century
ZIEGLER: [00:01:18] I really feel like we're going to have a lot to talk about. But I wonder if you'd be willing to just sort of start at the beginning. So, could you tell us where you were born and when?
DEANNE: Born New Iberia, LA, 1971.
ZIEGLER: And you're still in New Iberia now, is that right?
DEANNE: No, I'm actually in Calcasieu Parish.
ZIEGLER: Oh, okay.
DEANNE: So, if you look at where the two hurricanes met, there you go.
ZIEGLER: Yeah, exactly. Were you there for that?
DEANNE: No, we actually evacuated to Ponchatoula for both storms.
ZIEGLER: [00:01:59] Oh, I see. And the two storms we're talking about are --
DEANNE: Laura and Delta.
ZIEGLER: Which both came through in 2020.
DEANNE: I love my hometown. I don't want to live there. I'm sure a lot of people have that opinion about where they're from. I love the history and culture of my hometown, but I outgrew it by the time I was 18, and trips back is reminding me why I'm comfortable with being elsewhere.
ZIEGLER: So, this whole time, I'm correct in understanding, right, that you were not out as a trans woman.
DEANNE: No. I did not know the term transgender until probably 1995-96. I knew that things didn't work between mind and body, and I would act on that, in guilt. And there's a lot of religious guilt involved in that. I'm sure we'll get to that eventually. It really wasn't until, and this is kind of sad, I really did not get online until 1995, when I went to seminary. And that's when I learned the term "transgender" and started saying, "Okay, yeah, that's who I am."
ZIEGLER: So, you learned the term transgender while in seminary.
DEANNE: In seminary. The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, the most conservative Southern Baptist seminary on the planet.
DEANNE: Louisville, KY.
ZIEGLER: Can you just talk a little bit about your decision to go to seminary?
DEANNE: I grew up Catholic, because growing up in the 70s in New Iberia, there was more Catholics than people. But always felt like there was more. And my family, after a while, my parents got divorced, we were pretty much nominal. My extended family, I had an uncle I was convinced was the Pope, but for me, I knew there was more in it. When I got to Mississippi I wound up in a Baptist Church, and in that Southern Baptist Church, I made my public profession of faith, my personal profession of faith. And about a year later, after going on a mission trip and having various opportunities in churches, I really felt like I was being, what we call, called to ministry.
And so, I started directing myself in that direction, knowing I was going to be involved in church work somehow. And since I was in a Southern Baptist Church, it was probably going to be related that way. Went to a Southern Baptist college, who gave me scholarship money for being a ministerial student, so I committed to serving within the Southern Baptist church. And actually, ironically, at that time, I went to Southern in Louisville, KY, Southern Seminary, because a year earlier Dr. Al Mohler had become president, and he brought this wave of changes. Because Southern was so liberal, he actually moved it way to the right. And it's like, "Okay, well, because he's done that, I want to go there."
And that was kind of my mindset. Because I was actually trying... A lot of it was guilt from knowing that I didn't know how else to say I wasn't right, that I needed to try to fix myself. And I thought faith would do it, that going into ministry would do it, pastoring would do it, seminarian. You can't chase who you are out of you, basically.
ZIEGLER: But it sounds like maybe you tried for a while.
DEANNE: Oh, I did, up until a few years ago. It took a lot of theological deconstruction for me to accept me, and it's still a work in progress.
ZIEGLER: [00:10:42] I wonder if we could just talk a little bit about what that progress would be, if you don't mind.
DEANNE: I've been pastoring since 2004. I've been here since 2010, 2009. After my dad died, I really felt like I wanted to back closer to home. I was in Arkansas at the time, and we ended up back here. And it's close enough to home to be home, but still there's enough distance there that I'm happy with it.
ZIEGLER: So, to whatever extent you feel comfortable, I wonder would you be willing to talk about, again, that struggle. Is there anything that you would want to say about the struggle between then and now?
DEANNE: Oh, yeah, I don't mind. No, because it's part of my story,my thinking. Until a few years ago, I thought I was the only one in this kind of position, and in my search and in my struggle, I discovered I'm not alone in this. And so their stories helped me, and maybe my story will help somebody else. Because I know I'm not alone.
ZIEGLER: I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your family
DEANNE: I'm not out at home. 26, 27 years ago, when my now wife and I first got together, I was sitting on her parents' couch in Cincinnati, OH. And she was a student up in Ohio, at a college that kind of leaned a little more left. Between that and people she worked with, she went on a very homophobic rant. And even though I wasn't struggling with my sexuality at that point, in the way I was not knowing I was transgender, I realized, "Okay, this is not anything I need to talk about. I just need to get fixed."
And we have - I've struggled with that, and it's because I know my wife, because of stuff I've heard her say over the last 25 years, but also the last couple years, very transphobic. She and my son got into an argument right before Christmas because he thought she was transphobic about something. And so, for a long time, I hid myself away because I didn't want to lose my kids. My kids are my all, my everything. They're 19 and 23. They're still my babies, and I could not have imagined not having them in my life. My daughter, the oldest one, she is my world. I did not want to lose them forever. And so I hid myself away. I locked the closet tight.
ZIEGLER: Do they know? Have you talked to them about it?
DEANNE: No. No, I haven't. And this is the hardest part of this, the fact that these two hurricanes just totally screwed everything up for us. Because honestly, I expect the worst to happen. I hope for the best, but I expect the worst. And if the worst happens, if I come out at church, I'm not going to have a job. I'll be fired on the spot. I'll lose my house, and I can't sell my house. You can see it. I've got no walls on the North side, from hurricane damage. I owe more on this house than it's worth right now because of hurricane damage. And so I really imagined, when all this started last year, when I really started moving in this direction, that all this will be taken care of. But COVID happened and then hurricanes happened, and any timetable I have is just totally gone.
ZIEGLER [22:32]: I wonder what you think of this question, though, because I've had the good fortune to talk to several people who came out either to themselves or out to their family, friends, etc. during 2020, and some of that is because of their own personal journey, for sure, but a significant portion of folks have indicated in some way that just the external events of the year add the appropriate amount of stress or the appropriate perspective to sort of push that through. And I wonder, your thoughts about that, if you think the events of the world happening around you has any effect on your journey at all.
DEANNE: I think so, because we realize just how delicate things are, and with the last administration, I've become political. Now, I used to be a lifelong Republican, understand. The hatred of the last administration, I think, probably pushed people to be like, "Okay, I've got to do this now before I don't have the freedom to.” I actually, in spite of how crappy 2020 was, February I started on spiro, and then in July/August, I actually started on e patches. And so, the hurricane was August 25, 26, 27. We evacuated the day before. That was the source of sanity for me.
Because this is so weird. During that time was probably some of the worst I've ever experienced because I was trapped in guy mode, even though I lived there, at least had my outs from time to time where I can be me. But for those six weeks, two months, 2 1/2 months, I think the hormone therapy is the only thing that kept my head above water. My gosh, I cried so much. I don't think I cried more than I did last year. And my therapist, when we finally got together after the hurricanes, I understood the urgency to want to get that done in the last year, and I really wish I could have gone all out. And it is hard, especially with my position. Our church has got it, and I'm fighting an obligation of, "Do I need to make sure this is rebuilt or not?"
ZIEGLER: I wonder, in closing, if you would like to say anything. So again, this is recorded, most likely will be kept if you choose to donate it. So, if you can imagine somebody watching this in 30 years, is there some final thought you'd like to leave them with, with what it means to be trans for you, right now, again in this time and in this place, here in the early 21st century in Southwest Louisiana?
DEANNE: Self acceptance is a beautiful thing. The journey is long and hard but it's worth it. I think better days are coming. I'm thankful that future generations don't have to grow up in the ignorance I did. If I had the resources today, 30 years ago, when I was in college, I think my life would be different. Take advantage of what's out there. Take advantage of the resources. Take advantage of the knowledge base. Take advantage of those who have gone through the struggle and the journey, and let them pour into you. And when it's all said and done, just be you. Be yourself. Be real and true to yourself. The statement I've learned to accept, and it took a lot of deconstruction theologically, that is true for me: live your truth. Because if you try living another truth, you're going to hate life. You're going to be miserable.
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We’ll end it there on that note. You can read more from our interview, including early thoughts on the new President (this was recorded the day after the inauguration after all), at our website Louisiana Trans Oral History dot ORG.
Since this recordings, Dani is no longer a Baptist pastor. She is now serving in a Presbyterian (USA) church, which I’m delighted to hear is much, much progressive and inclusive.
Before we hear the song of the month, let me just give very big appreciation to Caroline Ziegler and Rae Garringer for their editorial work for this episode, the Louisiana Endowment for the Humanities for the funds that made interview transcripts possible. We thank our transcriptionist, Dre Tarleton. Our theme music is composed and performed by Daisy Ray. Today’s show was mixed, recorded, and hosted by me, Sophia Ziegler. And a giant, giant thank you to Dani Deanne for being part of our project
As I mentioned at the top of the program, so much of what we do depends on the support of patrons. If you like our work, you can find us at patreon.com/Louisiana Trans Oral History. All funds are reinvested in the community, this is how we pay the musicians for the use of their work, this is how we pay for ongoing interview transcripts. And I love that everyone we give money to is part of the trans and gender nonconforming communities.
This episode's featured song is 'Beautiful Heartbeats,' by Lola Jean Darling, an indigenous trans woman living in New Orleans. I hope you enjoy it. I know I do. Be safe out there everyone, and we’ll be back next month with a new episode.
[Song Segment]